Catherine McDonald 0:00
Training is where they’re showing somebody something, right? And you’re role modeling it, and you’re giving them the knowledge about how this works. Mentoring is where you’re sharing your own stories. Of you know, here’s what I did, and here’s what I think works. And could, you know, you could do this, and that’s all great too. Coaching is not either of those. It’s where you step back, but once you’ve told someone something a few times and they don’t seem to be picking up, that’s where you know you need to

Shayne Daughenbaugh 0:40
coach Hello and welcome to the next episode of Lean solutions podcast, where we talk about all things lean and continuous improvement. And one of the things that is a huge component of lean and continuous improvement is coaching. So today we’re going to talk about coaching, which I am super jazzed to be on this with Catherine, because I think she has a fantastic perspective, not only perspective, but also experience with your business, Catherine, and the things that you do, not just as an executive coach, but creating. And I think we’re even going to be talking about this, how to create a coaching culture, you know, in in how we’re going to do this, ladies and gentlemen, we have you here. We’re going to, we’re going to be talking about, you know, what it what it means to have coaching in the workplace, why it even matters? What does it look like in practice? And then, as I mentioned, how do how? What are some things we can do to create that coaching culture? So without further. ADO. Catherine, thank you so much for being here with me. How are you today?

Catherine McDonald 1:40
Hi, Shane, I’m very well thank you. Thank you for that lovely, warm welcome and introduction. So nice of you. You didn’t mention that you coach as well as part of your job.

Shayne Daughenbaugh 1:50
So that’s true, that’s true, but I never see myself as the expert in the room. I’m just

Catherine McDonald 1:56
that’s a really good thing. I think I, you know, I just think it’s really good that, yes, we can have experience, but I think, you know, it never sits well with me if we think we’re an expert, because where does that leave room for learning?

Shayne Daughenbaugh 2:07
Right, right? Exactly. I have expertise. That’s how I like to think about it. In my head. I have expertise. I don’t want to downplay what I have, but I’m doesn’t because I have expertise, doesn’t make me the expert, but I think you have a little more experience with coaching. So let’s get into it. Let’s talk about what, what is, what do we mean when we talk about coaching in the workplace?

Catherine McDonald 2:29
Okay, right? Let me try and break this down. So coaching in the workplace, there’s a number of different ways, I suppose, that coaching is brought into a workplace. The first is like the kind you just mentioned. So you bring in somebody like me, an executive coach, a leadership coach, and they are external to the organization, and they take people and teams through a set program of coaching. So that’s one way. It’s a great way, because what’s,

Shayne Daughenbaugh 2:56
what’s, what’s the purpose of that? Because each of these, I’m sure, have a little bit different, nuanced purpose. So what’s the purpose of that one?

Catherine McDonald 3:03
Yeah, so the purpose of that one, I think the greatest benefit is when you have an organization where of people who haven’t had coaching before, who don’t even understand what coaching is, and yet, somewhere in their strategy or strategic plan, there’s this reference to, we most leaders, must coach. And, you know, they don’t actually know. How do you know what something is if you’ve never experienced it before? So when you bring in an executive coach, and they bring, let’s say, you, I bring you Shane through a coaching program, then you start to associate the word coaching with something. Ah, I understand what this is now. And I start to understand that coaching has, you know, the sessions that are about 6090, minutes. There’s a beginning, middle, end. There’s certain tools and approaches that Catherine uses. So alright, this is, this is executive coaching. So there, there’s obviously benefits in terms of the time and space that that gives to people who are very busy, who don’t have the time or make the time to step back and reflect and think about their own behaviors, goals, things like that. So it’s very good for giving people that kind of clarity.

Shayne Daughenbaugh 4:11
Would you also say, with that executive coaching, you mentioned a start and an end time, not just for the coaching sessions, but for the coaching that you’re going to do is, could are sometimes coaching around a particular topic, like, I want to be better at strategy, or want to be better at execution, or whatever. Could coaching also be like, almost topic, driven? I don’t know if that’s the right way to say it.

Catherine McDonald 4:39
Well, yes and no. So driven, I think it so for me, it has to be if, if it’s individual coaching, it has to be bespoke. So it has to address whatever that person’s needs are. So for example, if I do my little assessment in the beginning and we figure out, okay, well, we’ve measured this person in 16 leadership areas, and actually what. Coming out of that is this person wants to work on their communication skills and their emotional intelligence, right? That’s what we will focus our sessions on. The next person could be time management and delegation. So it very much depends, which I think, is the, again, another benefit of of having that sort of executive coach who is maybe trained in these tools and techniques in terms of improving those specific areas. So that’s executive coaching, and it depends on who you get and what to do, but I think again, that cannot there can be benchmark assessments that go with that at the beginning and end, you can come out of it with a strong development plan that maybe you didn’t have beforehand. So lots of benefits. The other type of coaching is more in house coaching. So we might we’re going to talk about coaching culture in a little bit, which I think has to be one of the goals of bringing an executive coach in, is actually not just this once off, but to develop an actual coaching culture in your organization. But the only way you can do that is really to for the coach, to coach the leader, to be able to coach others. So what you want is this ripple effect in the organization where the executive coach comes in, coaches the leader, the leader then starts to coach their teams, and they start to coach whoever reports to them, so that that is the goal, and I think it’s really important then for the leaders who are attending whatever kind of coaching they have themselves for that coaching to also be focused on. Okay, well, how do you interact with your teams? How do you coach? And for a little bit of that to come in for any leader who’s going through any sort of executive coaching program, that’s what they should be taking away here. So and I mean, just to very quickly, then say that when you’re in the workplace for any manager, leader, supervisor, Team Leader, when they’re coaching their team. There’s also different types of coaching that happens in the workplace. So you’ve got the at the gemba coaching in the place where work happens, it’s kind of informal. And then you’ve got the, let’s say more formal, off the, you know, floor, sit down, one to ones where space to actually talk about whatever you want to talk about that you don’t want to talk about in front of everybody else. So lots. That’s kind of what we mean about coaching. You’ll hear other forms of cat or coaching and lots of different but, but that’s, I suppose, something that you have to for every organization to look into decide what’s right for us right now.

Shayne Daughenbaugh 7:21
So why is, why is it important? Why is coaching? I mean, it’s, it’s a buzzword out there. It seems like there’s business coaches galore. But why? Why? Why are there? Why are there business coaches galore? Why? What’s, what’s important about this? What is other than, I mean, you did mention the benefits, the specific benefits. Hey, maybe I’m gonna get better at communication. Is it that simple? Or is there something else to

Catherine McDonald 7:44
Yeah, so I suppose the first thing to look at is coaching is just one approach, one leadership approach. As you know, if we’re just talking about leaders, it’s just one approach, or one approach that any anybody can take in the workplace. You may need sometimes see coaching is all about, I guess, the stepping back, to ask more questions, to listen effectively, to develop the people around you. That’s really what we’re talking about. When we’re talking about coaching, it’s about developing people. So there are times where that’s called for in organizations a lot of times, and there’s lots of opportunities to do that, probably more than are taken. But that’s not always what we need. Sometimes we need a very direct, you know, maybe more authoritarian approach. If there’s a decision that has to be made quickly and, you know, the the boats rocking and it’s about to spill over, we need somebody to make decisions fast. And we it’s not about slowing down. To ask people, well, what do you think? Where should we sit in the boat? You know, it’s about boat sinking. Here’s what we need to do. So absolutely, there’s different approaches, but coaching has to come in, where we have people who need to be developed. We have people, people, you know, humans, when you first enter a job, the moment you enter to the moment you finish your we should always be able to develop those people, because it’s when we develop people. The people develop the work and the processes. So we don’t do it the other way around. We do people first. So that’s why coaching is really important. It’s a way of leading. It’s a way of developing people. It’s a way of engaging people. It’s a way of making people feel valued and respected. It’s a way of understanding how people are feeling about their work. It’s a way of getting feedback when we ask the right questions, and it’s a way of, I suppose, involving people in the business, in the organization, when we pause and we stop and we ask them what they think and what they think should happen. And it’s, it’s really important,

Shayne Daughenbaugh 9:37
yeah, it makes me this is gonna, this is gonna touch on the coaching culture, but recently, talking with an employee that was new to the job just stepped into or had their first really big project like this. This job has a specific thing that they do, and then suddenly they had an opportunity that was bigger than what. They had done previously, and they did smashing me to go through it. But one of the, one of the feedbacks that, that I heard from them is, I really wish I had someone to coach me through this, you know, so so it’s not just about your one on one. Sometimes I think coaching can also be in the moment, but you have to have that coaching culture. You have to have that. How can I develop my people anytime, not just, you know, when we’re trying to set our goals or do our year end reviews, but anytime or and, or like, especially being aware of, holy cow, this is new to this employee. This is new to my teammate. I really should, or they could really use some kind of coaching. And if I can’t give it, is there someone else who can and try to make that, try to make that possible, because that was one of that, one of the main things, again, that they, that they mentioned, and this, like this, really impacted them that they didn’t have that this wasn’t just, oh man, this was just a wish that I had, you know, I mean, it went, it brought down that. Wow, you’ve done an amazing work too, yeah, but, man, it would have been something else if I would have had so, yeah, yes.

Catherine McDonald 11:10
And I suppose we wouldn’t learn the lessons we learn, either would we, if we had somebody there to help us along the way. Although I always think it’s best not to be overly stressed by anything, and that’s where a coach can come into play for sure, right, right? You know, two problems we’re facing in organizations today. One is that leaders, managers are stressed. They’re just burning out. And there is plenty of research to support that. And one of the problems there, why that’s happening is because leaders are taking on too much of the work. So there’s not, not all leaders, but there’s a lot of managers and leaders out there who just, maybe just don’t have the skills to delegate effectively, who maybe ask people to do something, they don’t do it, and then the managers just does it, because, you know, they’re ultimately responsible and accountable. There’s a lot of that happening. And the other thing we’re seeing is a lot of people don’t want to be leaders anymore. We are. They’re not stepping up for these positions. They’re a little bit scared of stepping into them. And we’re going to talk about a coaching culture, and that’s really important, because if we can get to a point in our organizations where everybody in the organization is developing leadership skills from the moment they come in, we will not have the problems that we have now in terms of placing people in position leadership positions who can’t do the job, or people not wanting to step up to leadership positions, because, ooh, I’ve never done this before. It’s scary and I’m going to fail so

Shayne Daughenbaugh 12:30
or they’ve seen what other how we’ve, you know, chewed up and spit out other leaders in that position, like, like, I don’t want that. That’s like leadership. I In a perfect world, I would say leadership is something that everyone should aspire to, because it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s not about the title. It’s about, Hey, I am growing my skills, and I am I am reaching down and pulling others up with me as we do this, but too often, I think especially in the context you’re talking about with, with this, this idea of leadership burnout, you know, it’s, it’s, I don’t want that responsibility. I mean, I can’t even see past all the responsibility that I have in the crushing weight that is that happens to be there because I don’t feel supported, or I don’t trust my team, because I haven’t been given the skills to interact with my team in such a way that can build the trust that you know that if you give Shane a job, you don’t have to keep checking on him. We have that relationship. We have that coaching that allows you to be able to trust Hey, I’m going to give it over here, and that frees me up to do other work. So yeah, exactly.

Catherine McDonald 13:40
And if every manager and leader is having their one to ones and is spending time at the game, but they’re having these conversations about, how is work, how is your workload? What are your strengths? What are your challenges? Okay, what does that mean for your development and what you need to work on? And if you are having those every two weeks or every month throughout the year, you are having those conversations. Are connecting together, and people are going away with actions. They’re working on themselves, and they know what they need to work on, and they are building their skills throughout the year in a very intentional way, which they wouldn’t be doing if they didn’t have that kind of coaching check in with their manager, you know? So it does. It takes a while for all of this to come together into what we call a coaching culture where everybody understands what coaching means in their organization. Because it can be different in different organizations, but every organization should know. What does coaching mean in our organization, and what does that mean for specific roles. Who does what you know and it should really what it should result in is everybody in the organization, understanding what coaching, what it means to coach, but the skills that are required to coach, and it means that they are working on those skills as well. So it’s just coach, coaches the person, the person, coaches the next person, but it’s all about how you lead yourself and how you lead other work. With other people, and you don’t have to be a formal leader to do that either.

Shayne Daughenbaugh 15:03
So, right? So you’ve kind of skimmed over, touched on what, what coaching looks like in practice. But Can, can you give some like, if you’re, if you were working with me to help me Coach, what are some things you would ask me to set up to begin with, so that I have a place to start. Like, all the things you just rattled off, you know, at first it was like, okay, I can do that. And then, oh, there’s more. Wait, there’s more, and you there’s more and there’s more. And so it can become, like, overwhelming. I mean, it’s aspirational, but it how can I make this what you just described, operational,

Catherine McDonald 15:38
yeah, so let’s say you’re my client. Shane, you come to me and we get to the section on the leadership competencies that has coaching skills, right? And I say to you, okay, Shane, tell me, what? How much do you know about coaching skills, coaching other than what I’m doing with you here now, in terms of your own leadership, do you see yourself as coaching your team? So, Shane, you would think for a little while, and you would tell me and say, well, here’s what I do, and I would ask you more questions. And I would say, Okay, well, Shane, where are the opportunities to interact with your team? Tell me as standard, what do you do? As non standard, what do you do? So that will tell me a lot in terms of whether you’re doing things like spending time at the gemba, whether you’re, you know, facilitating sure that huddles are you’re facilitating them, or there’s somebody is doing that with the team. It’ll tell me, if you’re having one to ones, it’ll tell me a lot of things. So understanding the touch points is the very first thing you need to understand. Then I will ask you about the value of those touch points, and I will say, okay, so you meet your people and teams this frequency, every week, every month. How do you know those touch points are valuable. What do you talk about? What do you cover? And so then I will ask them, What, Where are their challenges with people? And they will tell me things like, well, I show people, I train people in whatever need they need to be trained in, but then they don’t do it right? They do wrong, right? And I’m like, okay, and they’re and they say, I mean, I’ve done everything that you’ve said.

Shayne Daughenbaugh 17:02
I’ve gave him the SOP. I talked to him about it.

Catherine McDonald 17:05
Yeah, so this is where we start then to bring in coaching skills, and we talk about the importance of this, ask and listen, approach. And this is where most people will turn around to me, and they will then start to see that what they’ve been doing is either training or it’s mentoring, but it’s not coaching. Training is where they Yeah, yeah, showing somebody something right, role modeling it, and you’re giving them the knowledge about how this works. Mentoring is where you’re sharing your own stories. Of, you know, here’s what I did and here’s what I think works. And could, you know, you could do this, and that’s all great, too. Coaching is not either of those. It’s where you step back. And once you do need to do a certain amount of training first. But once you’ve told someone something a few times and they don’t seem to be picking up, that’s where you know you need to coach. You need to step back. And when you meet that person and they have, you know, wired the plug wrong, even though you’ve showed them how to do it three times you need to say, Okay, come over here. Let’s look at this together. So do you see an issue? First of all, do you see an issue? If they say, No, okay, we have to start at the very beginning. Okay. Do you remember your training? Here’s what we, you know, said, is the right way to do this, the standard operating procedure. If they say, well, actually, yeah, I can see that’s not right, you’re simply going, Okay, let’s talk about how that happened, why that happened, what do you think went wrong? And then you’re figuring out through quest. This is a bit like the scientific cat or coaching that we hear. It sounds like, yeah, and it’s about that scientific approach to Okay, so, so we understand the steps in the process. You follow the steps in the process. But actually you’re saying, when you got to this point, either you didn’t follow the step, or you did the step and the step is wrong, or we’re trying to figure out exactly what happened to lead to this end result, and at the end of the conversation, there’s an agreement on something went wrong. We understand why, and we understand what has to happen, what you’re going to do, or what I’m going to do to for this problem to be fixed. So that is kind of, I suppose, coaching in practice, and that is often how I teach it. And in my coaching sessions, there is a little bit of knowledge sharing about coaching in there for person to understand what coaching looks like in terms of your own habits and behaviors. And a lot of it is based on, give me an example of something that’s going right for you or wrong for you. And let’s talk about how you handle that. Let’s talk about how it could be handled differently in order for you to coach effectively.

Shayne Daughenbaugh 19:27
There. Okay, so how I put some of that together in my head? You know, in regard to operationalizing this, you know, where are the opportunities asking this question, where are your opportunities to engage with your people? How are those value? How or how valuable are those opportunities? And then you, you said something else, and I kind of missed it. But we, then we got into some of the coaching skills. What are the coaching skills like? Okay, what are your opportunities? How valuable are those? Capitalize on those opportunities. To do is, which ones can you capitalize to really get into the coaching? And then we can see, are there deficiencies in my coaching skills? Then talking about the model of, you know, ask and listen, kind of that scientific method, structured problem solving, however you want to approach it, walking them step by step through it with a hey, what do you see? What do you think? Oh, what could we do and better? And then ending with collaborating on an action that is going to, you know, a rectifying action, or whatever it is, you know, correcting action, or, I mean, maybe, maybe it’s not a, maybe it’s not something that’s done wrong. It’s just a problem we have. But we’re collaborating on, hey, this is how we’re going to try to approach that, how

Catherine McDonald 20:43
and, and this is where you bring in the kind of lean thinking as well behind, you know, PDSA or PDCA, whichever you use. If I’m with a team and I’m coaching a team and or I’m coaching a leader who’s coaching a team, and we talk about that leader or manager tells me, You know, I really want my team to come up with more ideas for improvement. And I want to, you know, see those improvements through. And I want our team to make, you know, get somewhere this year when it comes to change and improvement. And I will then bring in the PDCA cycle, and we will go through that, and I will say, Look, they’re very simple coaching structures like PDCA that you can use with your teams or with individuals when it comes to trying to advance in anything in the business. So you make your plan, you you know there’s certain questions you have to cover off and topics you have to cover when it comes to planning. There’s a certain way to do that. So we cover that. Then it’s a case. Okay? You go off, you make your commitments, they do the work. You come back and as as the manager that the parts that are often missed are the see the check in or the study, if you’re if you prefer, the study of what actions were taken and the impact of those actions. And that’s what you do when you come back into your next coaching session, whether it’s informal or formal. Okay, what did you do? How did it go? How do we know? And again, back to the scientific thinking of the study of what we did and the impact, and then, based on that, how are we going to adjust and go forward next week before we meet again? So there’s an awful lot of overlap, I think, between Lean tools and coaching tools and a coaching approach, like when we teach, when we’re taught about Lean we don’t I know well, I’ve done the black belt course, and I know there wasn’t enough emphasis. We do cover leadership, but there wasn’t enough emphasis on how do we work with people when it comes to coaching them to be able to do the work that needs to get done and in a way that empowers them to come up with the ideas and go off and do the work themselves and come back in and understand its impact. So coaching is the answer to that. So I think we need more of that in our Lean trainings and our Lean, you know, workshops, or whatever

Shayne Daughenbaugh 22:51
we have now, as you just, what you just described, sounded to me like, you know, if, if someone were to hear is listening, someone is listening to this conversation, going, Man, where can I start with this? You know, I love this idea, but I’d like to see this. You made me just think of like, how we could do a daily stand up or a huddle, you know, a 1015, minute kind of time using those questions, the PDCA we’re using, using that framework and the questions that are within that framework to move people from here’s, you know, here’s where our goals are for this week. Are we going to hit them? I don’t know. Where we at. What have you done? What have we learned? What’s the impact of what we’ve done? Do we need to adjust, you know, to be able to but it just sounds like a really simple place to start. Is a daily stand up or a huddle, right? We can. Can you think of another place, because maybe, maybe I don’t have daily standups. Is there another place? A simple place where I could start this, this kind of coaching routine? Yeah, practice, yeah.

Catherine McDonald 23:53
So what we’re talking about here is your Interact, the type of interaction, and it’s a coaching approach. It’s just a type of interaction with people. That’s all it is. So daily,

Shayne Daughenbaugh 24:00
not an event, but this is okay. Thank you. Yes, a type

Catherine McDonald 24:05
of how we speak to people, how we interact with them, when we’re with them, okay, that’s all we’re talking about when it comes to coaching. So yes, the huddle, the daily huddle, is perfect, because as a leader, you can, all you have to do is ask the right questions.

Shayne Daughenbaugh 24:20
Okay, it’s already set up. You could just, yeah, yeah.

Catherine McDonald 24:23
And you are prompting people to think critically, which is a very important part of coaching. You’re not telling people, right? Sam Ben, you’re doing this for the day. You know. Tony John, this is what you’re doing. That’s not coaching. That’s a telling. Maybe that’s necessary sometimes, but most of the time it’s not. You’re saying, Okay, guys, tell me about your plan for the day. Okay, what’s your focus? Okay, next person, okay, you’ve heard what John said there. Does that sound good? Is that you know? And what’s your kind of plans and your focus for the day? And once everybody you’ve gone around the room. Room. You’ve in a couple of minutes, everybody’s clear on their focus. Everybody’s clear on the issues that popped up yesterday that need to be dealt with today. That’s, that’s all you have to do. You’re you’re facilitating the interaction, because that’s a lot of what coaching is about. You’re facilitating. When you’re in a team is facilitating the conversation to make sure it’s effective. So you asked, what others? So the huddle is one you’ve got at the gemba, is it? So this should be all part of your Leader Standard Work in your calendar. As a manager, you’ve got, okay, my huddle in the morning, I’ve got my GEMBA walks, or my site walks, whatever you like to call them, where I go out and I spend time with the people to doing the work, and I check in and I say, How’s things going? Anything tripping you up? Maybe I have an SOP with me, and I’m checking to make sure people understand it, but I’m spending time with the people doing the work to understand how the work is going. If there’s any challenges that’s coaching right then in my calendar, I’ve got my one to ones for that week and next week, and that’s where I’ve got the invite sent out in advance. And everybody knows when their one to one with me is, and that’s they know where to go, and they know what the agenda is, and they know what it’s going to be about. There’s three examples. You’ve also got team meetings where you This is where team coaching applies, where you bring in your kind of facilitation skills as well as your coaching skills and and I suppose they’d be the main there’s obviously every company has its own structure, and you can use coaching skills right throughout whether it’s mini moments throughout the day when somebody comes to you with a problem and you have, you know, just take that pause, to step back and to kind of go, Okay, tell me more. Let me understand, right? Rather than if it’s a problem, rather than jumping to respond to going, Oh no, you’re kidding me. Don’t tell me that. You know, you’re trying to stop yourself having that response. You’re trying to, I suppose, develop that coaching approach where you just take a breath, you ask questions to understand it, and you ask the person questions to prompt them to think critically, to understand, okay, what happened? Why did it happen? Let’s get all the information we need. Let’s decide together what we need to do.

Shayne Daughenbaugh 26:56
Big difference, yeah, yeah. So what I love about how you’re describing this and how it just kind of fleshed itself out there, you know, a minute or two ago, is to demystify coaching in understanding the coaching is just a way to interact with people. That’s just how we interact. It’s, it’s not a, you know, a magic cape you have to put on. It’s, it’s not, you know, a bazillion courses that you have to take, coaching is just a method of interacting with people that can tend to especially with Lean, yeah, can, can, because Lean is so much about focusing on the people, not just productivity, yes, but also the people part of things. So you have, you have given us, you know, you kind of cast a vision, as we’re going to wrap up here. Cast a vision for, for how what a coaching culture can be. Can you give like a specific maybe, I don’t know if you have a specific example of what a coaching, a good coaching culture looks like. Did I say that, right? Coaching culture. Coaching culture, yeah.

Catherine McDonald 28:03
I mean, I would always say to it starts simple to begin with. So in year one, if I’m working with a company, I tend to work long term for a number of years with companies, because this doesn’t happen overnight. So in year one, let’s say our coaching culture is that every manager has time in their schedule to visit the gemba every single day, and they have a understanding of what that looks like to be effective. And they also have one to ones in their calendar every whatever it is month for each of their direct reports. And success at the end of the year is when you’ve just achieved that. Right now, we’re not measuring all the other things that are happening, but there are other things happening in the background there. In the second year we’ve we go a little bit further, and we continue to develop leader, because on the in the first year, that might include some executive coaching for leaders as well who don’t know how to coach, right? And so in year two, we’ve moved on, and we’re going a little bit more advanced then into getting feedback from the people who are receiving coaching to understand what’s working well, what isn’t working well. In our coaching approach, we’re doing 360s probably, which are psychometric reviews to get really specific feedback on each leader’s coaching skills. And from that, we’re designing training and coaching in a lot more of a specific way to build specific skills that we figured are missing after year one. So yeah, there’s what we want is for leaders to be coaching and what we want is for the people who are non formal leaders to also be able to coach their peers. A new person starts. They’re able to coach them. It doesn’t have to fall on the leader’s shoulders to take this new person and train them in anybody can take a person, once they know have the technical skill, have the skills, to actually train them in really well. So that’s kind of the thing we’re looking for.

Shayne Daughenbaugh 29:47
I love that. I love that as I saw it, like the first phase, and I appreciate that you gave a timeframe, because some people may think coaching is just, hey, we’re just do it for three months and we’re good. Maybe your company can, I don’t know. But I’m going with Catherine’s expertise, saying my experience shows the first phase is the setting expectations and the action upon those expectations, like, let’s put something in place to move this kind of thing forward. Then the feedback the second phase, or the second year, feedback reflection, understanding where, where some of the gaps are, and then focusing on those skills to better what you know, to better meet those expectations and actions that we had first phase. And then it trickling down, and people kind of catching the vision of, hey, this is how as a company, we want to interact with each other when it comes to problem solving, when it comes to, you know, how the work flows through, you know, through, through our value stream.

Shayne Daughenbaugh 30:46
So Exactly, exactly. Man, this

Shayne Daughenbaugh 30:49
has been fantastic. Catherine, thank you so much for for sharing your experiences and your expertise with this. I am, yeah, there’s, there’s some great things here. I thought I had an idea of coaching and and I, you know, it’s, it’s an I it was, it was that, it was an idea. But this has so much more. So this has been fantastic. There’s anything that you would want, last, things you’d want to share, and then you can send us off.

Catherine McDonald 31:16
I think I’ve said a lot there in 30 minutes. Yeah, no, if you’re wondering where to start, just get together. Get your senior leadership team together. Figure out what you have and what you don’t have in terms of coaching. Figure out if you need external support or if you don’t. But don’t just bring in somebody to go through a program. Put together a 123, year plan for this. Don’t just try the once off, because that’s what everybody does and it doesn’t work, and have a three year plan for our coaching culture. That’s what I would say.

Shayne Daughenbaugh 31:45
Yeah, thank you, and thanks, ladies and gentlemen, for listening again. If you found some things value been here, please write them down. Let us know. We would love to hear your comments, either when we post this on LinkedIn or in YouTube or in your favorite podcast platform. We’d love to hear anything to know that this doesn’t go into the void, but that this lands and brings some kind of benefit to you. But also, if you are enjoying our podcast here, as was this season five, is that what we’re into, holy cat, holy catfish, like that’s that’s awesome. If you’re enjoying it, please share it with friends. Talk about it. Let other people know that there’s some value in listening to us ramble on about the things or when we have guests, yes. Or if you have guests, yes. One last thing, if you have some guests that you would like to have, some people that you have heard before that you think would have something great to speak into our community. Please let us know, because we’re always looking for more people to be able to interview and to learn from so thanks so much for joining us. Have yourself a great day.