Patrick Adams  00:00

Where does the people side of things? You know, do we need to continue to worry about respect for people as a principle, or does it not matter anymore because technology is taking things over?

Marco Dannerhill  00:11

I’m not sure that technology will replace people. Will definitely require us for a different way to work. We should try to think of technology as a support to make us more productive. In the end, technology will never be able to replace human emotions, feelings, thinking, these kinds of things you Hey,

Patrick Adams  00:52

hello, and welcome to this episode of the lean solutions podcast. My name is Patrick Adams, and I am joined by the one and only Shane Dauphin ball. Shane, how you doing?

Shayne Daughenbaugh  01:01

I am doing well, Patrick, I am doing I have looked around for others of me, and I have only found me. So I appreciate that I am the one, and only

Patrick Adams  01:09

the one and only, there’s a lot of Shane’s out there, but they have nothing on you. On you the Shane, me the Shane, right, right, right. Shane, do you want to? You want to introduce our guest while I bring him to the

Shayne Daughenbaugh  01:22

stage, you better believe it. Yeah, ladies and gentlemen, today, our guest is Marco dannerhill. He brings with him a passion for continuous quality and processor improvement, grounded in an analytical mindset, systematic thinking and an open mind. As we’re exploring our topic today, modern, Lean thinking, we’re going to hear how Marco’s pragmatic, structured and action oriented approach combined with a large portion of common sense and a deep understanding of the whole value chain, how that reflects that shift in thinking that we need now as we’re moving forward. Now with long experience in operational leadership roles, he’s grown a strong strategic mindset, connecting with the full value chain, connecting the full value chain with disciplined execution. For Marco, the mandates for success are a high focus on teamwork and building a foundation of trust. Marco, we are so happy to have you here today.

Marco Dannerhill  02:17

Welcome to the show. Thank you. I’m very happy to be here? Yeah, we’re,

Patrick Adams  02:22

we’re excited to have you. This is your first time on the Lean solutions podcast. In fact, yeah, just so everyone knows, this is Marco’s first time on any podcast. We are number one. We’re hearing it

Shayne Daughenbaugh  02:33

first here, ladies and gentlemen, this is

Marco Dannerhill  02:38

a milestone in my life.

Patrick Adams  02:42

Love it. If those of you that are listening in might hear that Marco has a little bit of what I would consider an accent, he doesn’t consider that an accent, but he’s definitely not from the US. And you can also probably see, if you’re watching the video, that it’s a little dark where he’s at. So Marco, Tell us. Tell her, all of our listeners, where in the world are you at?

Marco Dannerhill  03:06

I’m located in the country, Sweden, in Europe. So I’m, at the moment, sitting in my home, in my kitchen, and there’s time is 7pm for me, so the lightning here at the moment in this time of the year is not the best, but I hope you can see parts of me at least

Patrick Adams  03:35

we can. We can, right? We can see enough. Yep, Marco, I’m interested to know, you know, we heard quite a bit of your extensive background and and I’m curious to hear a little bit more about your your approach to lean thinking. Do you mind just giving, giving our audience, maybe a little bit more information than what we had in the bio? Like, as far as you know, what’s been in your experience when it comes to lean thinking, and how what, maybe even I’d be interested to hear if there’s any differences that you think in how Lean is being applied, in Sweden, in the companies that you’ve worked in, or what you what you’ve been exposed to, yeah,

Shayne Daughenbaugh  04:16

and what and what in what industries as well. I’m very curious to hear the industries that you’ve worked in?

Marco Dannerhill  04:22

Yeah, I have a very long experience and mainly only been working in one industry, and that is within the plastics industry. Okay, let’s say innovational solutions on how to improve plastics performance out on the market for different end users. So I’ve been working in the same company, actually, for 35 years. Wow. Yeah, amazing. It’s a long time.

Patrick Adams  04:57

Well, and you know, you don’t hear a lot of that now. Nowadays with, you know, a lot of people are they, they’re in a role for two to three years at the most, and then they’re shifting either to a new company or getting promoted or whatever it might be, right? There’s, there’s not a lot of stability anymore, and when it comes to length of time, right?

Marco Dannerhill  05:14

Yeah, no, I know it’s become very different, but yeah, I’m, I’m more of the old school kind of guy in that way. Sure, that’s super

Shayne Daughenbaugh  05:25

interesting, because we’re going to talk about the modern way of doing things. And you just said, Hey, I’m kind of old school, you know, in regards to your setting, but, but your setting doesn’t have to stay it doesn’t have to remain the same. It doesn’t have to be the same as it was 35 years ago when you started. So I’m super interested in like, let me jump into this first question that we have for you. You know, as we’re talking about this, you’ve been there 35 years, you know, there’s a difference between when you started to where you’re at now, as we’re talking about adapting Lean thinking for today’s business models, what are some of the biggest shifts that you’ve seen that make it necessary to adapt in the first place. What are some of these big shifts that you’ve seen?

Marco Dannerhill  06:05

Yeah, if I should compare about how it was like 35 years ago, it’s like a night and day, of course. So I mean the biggest shifts today. I mean, we can just look around in the world. We have around us, there is much more uncertainty. Many things have happened during the years that have created this type of uncertainty on the market. We have all kinds of regular changes, geopolitical changes. Then we had the Kobe 19 hitting us and caused a lot of disturbances on the supply chain area and the way we work in general, being more virtual. So I mean, it’s, it’s so many things that have changed. And, yeah, if I look at it today, I think even though I may be seen as I have a long experience and maybe, you know, remembering the past. I think it’s very important that we all, no matter how long we have been working anywhere is we must adapt to the new environment and learn from what what is coming and what we cannot avoid, including new technology like now we are coming into AI and all of these kinds of things, so it’s just there, either we try to adapt and learn from it, or we will get bypassed. I think so.

Shayne Daughenbaugh  07:55

How easy, because I love this case study that we have in you, being in one place for 35 years. How easy has it been for you, mentally, to to adapt and to see these shifts? You know, sometimes I think it’s it’s really just coming from my own perspective. It’s really easy to, once I find a rhythm that works, I kind of put my head down and I just stay in that rhythm and without backing up and seeing a bigger picture of how things are shifting, then I’m you’re right, I may completely miss the boat. So I’m curious for you, how easy has it been for you to make these, these subtle shifts, or maybe not so subtle,

Marco Dannerhill  08:35

well, a little bit up and down sometimes, has been a little bit challenging and then quite hard to adapt to. Some moments been easier. I mean, we are also humans, so we also have that to think about, that it’s not only about our work, it’s how our whole life is impacting us and the way we think. And I think what I can see today is everything has become in such a speed. We need to do things quick, we need to react, we need to change, we need to do this. We need to that. And then, personally, I think that maybe this is causing many people to run on some kind of autopilot system and not taking that time always to reflect, pause and think about what is actually happening and what is my role in This. What I can I change to make it different?

Patrick Adams  09:44

That’s such a key point. And I have a question, just based on what you just said, that in regards to things changing so quickly, you know, the complexity, the speed at which organizations are are moving today, is so. Much different than it was, you know, 35 or 20 years ago, or even, honestly, even five years ago, and it’s and it’s not going to change, it’s only going to get more complex. Things are only going to be, you know, moving much faster. And to your point, if, if organizations don’t learn to to be flexible, to to continue to improve, to meet their competitors or to meet the needs of of their their customers, then they won’t be in business for very long. But the question is, what, how do we also balance the fundamentals or the principles of continuous improvement, those those Lean principles, those foundational things that are that are so key to helping organizations create stability and create a springboard to improve from how do we balance those fundamental principles with the speed and complexity of organizations today?

Marco Dannerhill  10:55

Yeah, that is a very good question, Patrick, and I think that is one of the main challenges today, how to really balance this. And I mean, if we speak about Lean and we speak about Kaizen and so on, I often hear comparisons with how this was developed once in the Japanese culture and from the TPS and so on, I think we may use those tools as good as we can in the Western world, but the culture of how we do it is completely different. But anyway, we I mean, we are in the Western world, so we need to adapt to this as well. What I can feel is a big shift. If I compare working with Lean 10 years ago or something else, it was really focused on, what can I do locally to improve this specific process? And we make a great, great achievement with the benefits for the plant or so today, doing Lean is much more complex, so you cannot just look on what is going on locally. And maybe, yeah, it may be even more if you’re working in larger corporations. It’s completely different today. It’s lot more and more how to sustain, how to grow the business, and all the things that we do as needs to become much, much more strategic than it was before. That that’s a big shift that I can feel.

Patrick Adams  12:52

So do you think with with technology? You know things happening. You know that, like you mentioned, AI, in some different things does, where does the people side of things? Do you know? Do we need to continue to worry about respect for people as a as a principal, or does it not matter anymore, because technology is taking things over?

Marco Dannerhill  13:16

Well, I’m not sure that technology will replace people, but it will, it will definitely require us for a different way to work. We should try to think of technology as a support to make us more productive. Right in the end, technology will never be able to replace human emotions, feelings, thinking these kinds of things? At least not yet. Let’s see what the future.

Shayne Daughenbaugh  13:51

Right, right, right. You know, in listening to you, I was, I was writing some things down in regard to balancing that speed and and as as you described it, I really appreciated how you described it with, you know, going from previously, it was more localized, you know, maybe it’s a process or a specific team or a specific area in the company, and now it needs to be, you know, much more about sustainment, much more about strategy. And what I thought of also, was it being more about the system, not in, you know, rather than just this particular process. But how does this process, it line up or tie into the whole value stream, or value chain, which, which we mentioned, you know, in the intro, and understanding that and, and I see that not only as a, possibly a shift in how lean has has been applied, but I also see this as a maturity in, you know, in how lean, yeah, how businesses use Lean, how they mature in their lean use and understand. Me, the principles and the foundations and all of that. Yeah, you know, a company that just moves from, hey, we just want to find a better way to improve how the mail room works, to, oh, let’s look at the entire system, what goes into the mail and what goes out of the mail room, how it all ties in, especially with, you know, how it goes to our customer, all of that. But a systematic approach with Lean I think is, is something that I’m getting very excited about and seeing that, and I don’t know if that’s because of how I’m seeing businesses apply it, or just simply my own maturity.

Marco Dannerhill  15:33

No, I think you’re absolutely right. And I think what also have to be considered today that due to all the things that I mentioned going on around us. It’s an uncertain environment. Companies are looking much more on cost as well. So you need to be very careful on what you spend your time on, and really look at this cost benefit analysis. If we do a project on this, on this, what is will, what would, will it really bring as a benefit for the company? I think that’s a lot more effort going into that kind of analysis. And also, you know, if we are looking at cost, and probably the companies are looking at head counts, and we are doing restructuring, or we doing whatever changes to adapt to this new environment. And then we need to realize that some people not working in the leadership area or in the Pro project leader department, or something like this, that don’t have these insights maybe to the to do to the strategy, that it’s a big risk that there will be a gap on the understanding of those people that are really doing the daily job and working on the shop floors. So I think that is one of the key to bridge this gap. And therefore today, when you are doing projects, process improvement and so on, it’s not just looking into the process itself. It’s a lot about coaching and mentoring, and you really have to go into the behaviors of people a lot more today, right?

Shayne Daughenbaugh  17:31

So that, that brings me to you know, the one of the things that I read when I introduced you was about your your mandates for what you believe success needs, requires is teamwork and trust, right? And that’s kind of what you’re talking about with without saying those words, you know, if the leadership team has a strategy, but it hasn’t been communicated, and there haven’t, there hasn’t been the investment in building the capabilities of people, then your your frontline staff is going to be like, I hear what you’re saying, but that that doesn’t mean anything to me, like there’s no trust. So, so what I guess I’ve kind of answered it a bit, but I’d love for you to tease it out just a little bit, if we can. You know, what role does trust and teamwork play in keeping lean relevant today in the environment this fast paced, bam, bam, bam, yeah. Well, again,

Marco Dannerhill  18:28

going back to strategy, often it starts with a very high level vision of where we want to go, and we have some strategic drivers and so on. And then we want to execute this strategy through the whole organization. But then we have to remember that those those people not involved with leadership and so in their daily job, they don’t understand, they don’t, maybe don’t understand all these financial numbers and so on. We need to break it down into elements that these all the people can understand that this area is where you can make an impact to contribute to the success of the strategy.

Patrick Adams  19:15

I think that’s an area where so many organizations miss is in I think that’s why you’re harping on this so so hard. Marco is the, you know, the upper executives, or you know, the upper echelons of leadership are, you know, they’re getting out of the office or doing strategic planning. They understand a lot of things about the business that maybe those people that are in operations, maybe they don’t need to know even, but what they do need to know, to your point, is how they can help impact the long term plans for the organization, and how they can be a part of meeting those goals that cascade down from that strategic plan. And I think that a lot of times that’s where companies miss is that they do those off sites. Where they have that strategic planning, but then they never cascade it down through the organization. Maybe it’s communicated to mid management, you know, but the frontline team members, the ones that are doing the value add work, the ones that are the experts in creating value for our end customer, they may not be getting communicated with on what they can personally do, or how the work that they’re doing impacts the goals or the end customer. And so I think that’s such a such an important concept that you’re putting out there and and one that organizations in all countries you know, struggle with. But there’s the one thing that you said that I think is drives a question for me is, you hit your your harping on strategy quite a bit, and you’re talking about that lean needs to be more strategic. You said that earlier, and maybe not just operational, or not just in the operations. Can you expand on that just a little bit and maybe talk a little bit more about, you know how leaders can actually make that shift to being to helping lean become more strategic versus so operational,

Marco Dannerhill  21:09

maybe before we did lean, and we did Kaizen projects to improve the throughput of a machine, or we wanted to reduce the change Over time on a on a line, or things like this. Okay, this is still good, of course, but what does it really bring to the overall benefit and growth of the company? There is a lot more activities going on with people working with Lean Six Sigma in organizations, things like that, that is trying to build for the future. It doesn’t mean that these projects will bring huge, high financial benefits right now, but these are things we need to fix if we are long term want to succeed with that strategy.

Shayne Daughenbaugh  22:01

So what I just heard was, in correct me, you know, shift my thinking here. What you’re saying is shifting from the improvement helping us right now to we’re going to be here for a while. And if we’re going to be here for a while, we need to tighten things up for the long term. So so lean has a a more forward thinking than immediate thinking focus is that, yeah, I’m

Marco Dannerhill  22:28

not saying that, that that improving the processes are not important the more, of course, they are everything. Every thing that improves is contributing. But I think it’s not not sufficient anymore. Just to focus on that part, you have to look a lot more on the bigger picture and but that’s also why we have, I mean, we have different levels of project leaders in the organization. We have the Kaiser leaders, those that are often leading those more local projects on throughput improvements and things like this. But then we have those higher trained project leaders, which are black belts and so and which also, it’s the area where I’m working in, and there is a lot more looking into strategic goals and what is the right projects to work on to reach that success. And that’s also a key, I think, today, when when we are selecting projects that this pipeline or project, should be very careful on what you start not starting putting efforts and resources into something that doesn’t really bring anything in the end and or maybe it was a priority 10 months ago, but Not anymore, because things are changing all the time.

Shayne Daughenbaugh  24:03

Yes, yes, and I love that so, so to kind of take this question and then let’s, let’s, I’m going to make up a word this the first time again, another exclusive word here, action eight. Action eight, that question and taking it from just the theoretical, because what, what I just heard was, hey, a way that that leaders can be more strategic rather than just operational, is how we prioritize our projects. First of all, right, and you mentioned, like, a belt system, or, you know, lean leaders or whatnot, those like, let’s, let’s stop having our heavy hitters take the really kind of softball or, I don’t know if that’s too, too much of an American slang, but the really easy projects, we can actually give those to, you know, those that are just learning about Lean, give those projects to those that are just learning about Lean. Yes, let’s not put those off. You know, if it’s just. A simple process redesign for the mail room. You know, let’s have, let’s have someone else do that. But also, you know, for where we really want to put our efforts and our energy, let’s look at what’s going to give us the best bang for it, what’s going to give us the best results. You know, the cost analysis, cost benefit analysis moving forward. You know, as we’re wrapping up here, because we are running, running short on time. Can you give some more actionable steps that leaders might be able to do, from your perspective, that leaders might be able to do to become more strategic? You know, we mentioned prioritization of projects and being aware of that. What else comes to mind for you?

Marco Dannerhill  25:38

Yeah, but you’re, you’re kind of hinting into it already. So those projects that might still be valuable, but not on the higher level, we need to empower the people in our organization, allow them to take their own decision, run the product, train them to use this lame, lean methodology, and that’s, again, where I come in, the will require a lot of time to coach and mentor people. This change, shift of culture and minded doesn’t happen overnight. So I mean, it’s also leadership commitment to really stay focused on your people and how to develop the people. It’s crucial today.

Shayne Daughenbaugh  26:28

Yeah, I don’t know if, if you thought of this Patrick, but as he was, as he was speaking, what came to mind? What when he when he talked about coaching and mentoring, you know, the the improvement cada like, that was the first thing that came to mind, right, right? For sure.

Patrick Adams  26:43

And so how? How would the last question for me, Marco, and then we’ll wrap up here. But if I was to walk into an organization five years from now, what, what would the the behaviors of leaders look like? What would I see in the future? What? What would I see that’s different from today when it comes to behaviors, like you’re talking about coaching, mentoring, accountability, empowerment, and those are all, you know, things that I would expect to see. But like, what are the actual physical behaviors that would be happening that would that would allow people to be held accountable, that would allow people to be more engaged, you know, that type of thing. What would some of those behaviors be that we would see five years from now?

Marco Dannerhill  27:26

It’s not a question I could answer in five seconds, maybe, but you can do it. No, I mean, but it starts already from the top. First there needs to be this commitment or the alignment in the top in what direction we want to go, what should be our priority. Then it needs to cascade down through the hierarchy, and not stop at some middle manager, but all the way down, and there you will need to be out there with the people. You cannot change culture behavior in sitting in an office and having five meetings per day or something like this. This is not the way it works. You need to be out with the people. At least the people, coach them, mentor them, is the only way to change it.

Patrick Adams  28:23

Yeah, and I think that that’s the key. Is that technology, AI, all of these things that are happening in businesses, you know, moving so quickly, all the complexities, all of that is happening, yes, but it doesn’t change the need for leadership to be visibly out at the gemba and and coaching, one on one, mentoring face to face AI isn’t going to do those things for you. And I think there’s some people probably that could argue that a little bit because they’re, you know, but it Yes, there will be aI coaching, but it’s not going to replace the power and and what a face to face conversation and leaders at the gemba. What that does for your culture? And I think that’s really what you’re saying. Marco is the culture is key. If you try to hand that all over to AI and think that AI is going to do your coaching, AI is going to figure out, you know how to map the value streams. AI is going to figure out how to do GEMBA walks and identify your opportunities. Sure, that’s all possible, but what is that going to do to your culture? And people have to be the most important asset, and they have to be respected. And if we try to turn all that over, that’s just it’s complete disrespect to our employees. Well, Marco, I’m excited for five years from now when we jump back on the podcast and see if we were right about projecting what’s going to happen five years from now, we will see, yeah, life is going to be a lot different than it is today, for sure.

Marco Dannerhill  29:53

Sure, that’s the thing. A lot of things in this world is changing in five years. That’s for sure. Yeah.

Patrick Adams  30:00

It well. Marco, thanks again for being on the show, and we so much appreciate your insight and all the work that’s happening over there on the other side of the world, and we look forward to hearing more from you. If anybody is interested to has questions for you or wants to connect with you, what’s the best way for them to get ahold of you?

Marco Dannerhill  30:19

The best way is to connect with me on LinkedIn, I would say. And that’s okay, yeah, perfect, yeah.

Patrick Adams  30:26

So we’ll drop Marco’s LinkedIn link into the show notes, and then if you, if you want to look up Marco, Marco dannerhill, two n’s, 2l in the last name, you’ll find him on LinkedIn. Marco, thanks again for being on the show. We really appreciate it. Now it’s getting getting late on your side of the world.

Marco Dannerhill  30:47

So yeah, yeah, a little bit. But no worries, I really appreciated being here, and thanks a lot for a good conversation.